im_the_goodguy_lolol
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Now the ability itself is fine, but I think red cards should have immunity from this since blue allies have an immunity to certain red cards/abilities. This would create more balance between the 2 colours. Another change I would like to see is allies frozen should perhaps thaw out after a certain number of turns? maybe 4 - 5 turns?

Post you own thoughts/ideas below.

techor
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No need to complicate things with the thawing, especially since the allies would be 0/1 when they thaw with no abilities anyway. And they can be thawed by a Winter Pillar leaving the field of play.

im_the_goodguy_lolol
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You misunderstand me. The allies would revert back to there base stats e.g. A frozen ant would return to being a 1/1.

pickhardt
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I think those ideas overcomplicate the cards. It’s not really needed - freezing is like a weaker version of destroying, since there are still various ways a frozen card can be useful or can regain usefulness.

For what it’s worth, Orbs CCG used to have a blue ally that was invincible against red (or a red ally that was invincible against blue, I can’t recall which). It was probably the most unfun card; people hated it, because their all-blue decks or mostly-blue decks couldn’t kill this one card.

I didn’t think it was unbalanced, but my take away was to be more cautious with invincible-against-color cards.

im_the_goodguy_lolol
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Well what if only red elementals were immune. Because how can you freeze fire? Blue allies get complete immunity to erupt volcano so it’s only fair that red has some sort of immunity to blue.

pickhardt
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I’m just way more reluctant to make an ally immune to a specific color, after having done it before and having people find it really unfun. What would happen is you’d get a bunch of new players who create a blue deck, play a game against this ally, find out that their deck just straight up loses to the ally, and feel like that’s unfair. (I know that all they have to do is diversify their deck to include a second color)

Erupt Volcano is different because it is an action card, so it’s more like saying “this action card has a specific weakness against blue” rather than “this ally card is immune to blue, and will just keep attacking you until you lose”.

Also, I actually added the clause to Erupt Volcano more as a benefit to encourage red/blue decks, rather than a weakness. It’s actually pretty powerful in blue/red aggro decks because it’s one-sided board removal (assuming you have mostly blue allies and your opponent doesn’t).

gregor
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once the creature’s fire is put out, how are they going to thaw out?

I don’t think its necessary for this flavor change. red is already very powerful as a color, with good early creatures, cheap removal that can also take an opponent out if they are low on life or you just have enough in hand, and also some of the best large creatures in the game.

Its just not really that necessary to me that red gets a natural advantage like this and also clutter up the game rules.

perhaps in a future expansion I could see a red action that could unfreeze objects and creatures, but I don’t think the game needs it now.

im_the_goodguy_lolol
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So much hate for my idea, lol. I think pickhardt misunderstood what I meant. Red elementals would be immune to being frozen not immune to the actual blue allies just the one ability called ‘Frozen’. So freeze trap for example wouldn’t work on a pyro.

techor
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Again, red is already strong enough as-is. That still gets into the “oh crap, there is absolutely nothing I can do” situation for a blue player who is playing a lot of freeze.

pickhardt
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I don’t strongly hate it, just don’t think I’ll add it.

I understood it, I just think it is overcomplicating the card for what is more of a niche ability. It’s certainly flavorful.

The point about cards that have “immune to X” was that it is often perceived as unfun by the person you are playing against.

solitea
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Fire melts ice, but ice and water also douse fire… From a “flavor” perspective you can go either way.

I agree that it’s better not to complicate the mechanics too much.

However, I also think the Freeze mechanic could be more fun and interesting.

Perhaps the simplest approach would be to have cards that interact with frozen stuff more.

Just as a weak example, maybe something like an Ice Sculptor that destroys frozen cards to create 1/1 Golem pseudocards with the Freeze ability of Ice Elemental.

techor
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Now that could be a cool card (haha, great pun), it would be a great way to combat someone who is freezing your stuff.

pickhardt
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I think some blue card that interacts with the other frozen cards could be interesting. Ideas:

Draw cards equal to the number of frozen cards in play.

Ally with +1 AP/ +1 HP for each frozen card in play.

Object with exhaust, destroy a frozen card: do something

Etc

solitea
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Indeed, there are many options. My vote would be for a small Ally (1/1, 1/2, or 2/2) with an interesting exhaust ability. Allies are more versatile than objects, and allies are easier to kill. If the ability turns out to be powerful, it will still be easily stopped by Fire Arrow, etc.

im_the_goodguy_lolol
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That actually sounds like a interesting card. It’d make your opponent think twice before freezing your allies. although perhaps a red action called thawing could be added. It’d be a R cost with the ability ‘Thaw target ally. revert it back to it’s base stat’.I could see this being a more balanced approach to things as opposed to my original idea.

pickhardt
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Do you think it’s too niche? It is not very usable if it just unfreezes a card. I might consider it like this:

Thaw version 1

1R

Unfreeze any card. Then draw a card.

I could also see it as:

Thaw version 2

R

Unfreeze any card.

Version 2 would be played in certain decks, perhaps DUC combo decks to unthaw a frozen Dawn of Destiny. Version 1 could be played more frequently.

If someone finds some royalty-free commercial friendly art that I can use with it, I can build the card pretty quickly.

solitea
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Happy New Year! If there is going to be a sinple Thaw card, I’d like to see it do more than just unfreeze a card. The freeze effect is not prevalent enough.

Perhaps add a clause like, “If it’s an ally it gets +1/+1.” And allow it to be played on allies that aren’t frozen.

I’m sure there are better ideas than what I just said. The concept is to make it more versatile than just being a niche answer to an already niche mechanic.

tallisman
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I agree with Solitea. Unthawing a card is nice but another effect is needed as well. Maybe something as simple as draw a card, that is unless the new card is an ally. Then the card is fine. Even if it is just a 1/1 ally.

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